Cam Selection for 327 Kinsler-Lucas powered Kellison

Ron C. · Post by **Ron C.** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:53 am

Vintrcr wrote:
Falcongeorge, It's a work in progress, but we are getting there!

I'll take the 1960 El Camino behind it

......with a 4 spd

Blessings......Ron.

coolchevy · Post by **coolchevy** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:54 pm

extremely cool car, we have one here in blue, got finished recently.

got a very racey 327 with single old school Holley

do you have more pics from engine?

falcongeorge · Post by **falcongeorge** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:40 pm

not one, but TWO Kellisons in the same thread! Who says Friday the 13th is unlucky! VERY cool...

falcongeorge · Post by **falcongeorge** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:43 pm

Ron C. wrote:
Vintrcr wrote:
Falcongeorge, It's a work in progress, but we are getting there!
I'll take the 1960 El Camino behind it ......with a 4 spd

Blessings......Ron.

Well, '60 El-Caminos are very cool, but, I'd take that chunk of '60s fiberglass over the Camino or even a '63-67 Corvette ANY DAY of the week! DAMN!

Tuner · Post by **Tuner** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:05 pm

The cam I would use in that is a Melling 22400 or other copy of the GM 3927140, “1st design, off-road Z-28”. Plenty racy, easy on valve train parts. 112° lobe separation will be cooperative with the injection. Good all around cam. Besides, it is the same vintage as the car, would lend some historical accuracy. Old school rules.

ClassicComp · Post by **ClassicComp** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:14 pm

I built a 306sbc for a T5 Surtees with webers and used a Comp 12-500-8 that made good power to 7400

falcongeorge · Post by **falcongeorge** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:46 pm

Tuner wrote:The cam I would use in that is a Melling 22400 or other copy of the GM 3927140, “1st design, off-road Z-28”. Plenty racy, easy on valve train parts. 112° lobe separation will be cooperative with the injection. Good all around cam. Besides, it is the same vintage as the car, would lend some historical accuracy. Old school rules.

Yes, a "140" would be "spiritually" suitable. LOL!

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:32 pm

If you want to stick to period (approximately)-correct GM cams, the Second Racing Design, p.n. 3965754, was recommended in the old Chevrolet Power book as the choice for road racing. I tried both in my cross-ram '70-1/2 Z28 back in the day, and the 754 made a bunch more power than the 140.

BTW,driven even moderately hard, those solid center front wheels will smoke the brakes in about 2 laps on most any track...

falcongeorge · Post by **falcongeorge** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:30 pm

Judging by the missing lug-nuts, I think the centerlines are on there just to hold the front-end up. Man, I love to see those cars being restored, the kellison J-5's/6's and the devins really evoke a very special time in automotive history, when indy cars were still built by racers rather than corporations, T/F cars ran blocks from the auto-wreckers, and anything seemed possible.

Vintrcr · Post by **Vintrcr** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:17 pm

Wow! Where do I begin.
Yes, falcongeorge is right on, the wheels are just to move the chassis around.

We feel very privileged to have the opportunity to restore one of these cars. There are constant reminders of those days when these cars were built in the backyards.

Very familiar with the GM 140 cam, but felt we would be leaving just too much considering the heads on the engine. Not sure about the availability of the "second design" GM cam.

Also stunned with the second Kellison! Coolchevy you certainly have a beautiful piece of art there! Glad to hear of the 327 too.

I don't have much on photos of the Kellison engine, but I do have this one of it only as a mock -up for our inspiration. The engine in the car is also for fitting of components only.
Thanks

Keith Morganstein · Post by **Keith Morganstein** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:45 pm

Vintrcr wrote:
Very familiar with the GM 140 cam, but felt we would be leaving just too much considering the heads on the engine. Not sure about the availability of the "second design" GM cam.

Both are readily available as clones from Elgin, but can't imagine you would actually want to use either.

ThomasL · Post by **ThomasL** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:46 pm

I ran that 754 second design cam in a 11:1 355 with some ported closed chamber 041 heads in the early 80's. I later transplanted it into an 84 camaro in place of the anemic LG4 305. It sounded really mean and pulled pretty hard to about 7200. With the 5 speed it was a gas to drive.
Tom

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:08 pm

Realistically, I can't imagine that a cam optimized for the induction, heads, desired RPM range, etc. and designed to be no harder on the valvetrain, could fail to gain 60 HP or more plus a ton of torque over any of these ancient pieces..

ThomasL · Post by **ThomasL** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:32 pm

I'm sure that you are probably right Bill. I ran it for about 30000 miles before I sold the car. I had no issues with plain old long slot rockers, and mild springs, so the lobes must be pretty tame.
Tom

falcongeorge · Post by **falcongeorge** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:23 am

Vintrcr wrote:Wow! Where do I begin.
Yes, falcongeorge is right on, the wheels are just to move the chassis around.

We feel very privileged to have the opportunity to restore one of these cars. There are constant reminders of those days when these cars were built in the backyards.

Very familiar with the GM 140 cam, but felt we would be leaving just too much considering the heads on the engine. Not sure about the availability of the "second design" GM cam.

Also stunned with the second Kellison! Coolchevy you certainly have a beautiful piece of art there! Glad to hear of the 327 too.

I don't have much on photos of the Kellison engine, but I do have this one of it only as a mock -up for our inspiration. The engine in the car is also for fitting of components only.
Thanks

I wasnt seriously suggesting running the "140" unless you were gonna go all-out and build a total period piece, with ported camel-bumps, period hilborns, the whole nine yards. IIRC, the 140 is the same as the 30-30, which was in the 365/375 hp 327's? It doesnt make ANY sense to use a period cam in an engine with modern visual cues, like aluminum heads and the bigger Hilborns. Having said that, the idea of doing a truly "period" engine for a car like this would be REALLY cool. How about the parts I mentioned at the start of the paragraph, with an Isky 550 super legarra? Dont forget a set of period magnesium torque-thrust Ds...