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epoxy block fillers no good?

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epoxy block fillers no good?

Postby Justin Jones » Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:30 pm

Darin Morgan, Show Guest: Do not EVER use epoxy in a water jacket no matter what kind it is. Its a disaster!


Does anyone have any info on why epoxies are so bad, I'm planning to use Devcon Liquid aluminum in my engine block, I have seen others use it on their engine block for sealing/fixturing cylinder-reinforcing bolts (often called "pins" or posts") with great success. Larry Widmer, a past show guest posts/pins lots of engines and reccomends that particular epoxy.

I was thinking of ordering some more liquid aluminum and maybe doing a half fill on the water jackets with it. I guess I should really get some more opinions before going ahead with it... disaster is a scary word. :shock: [/b]
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Postby SupStk » Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:53 pm

25 years ago I did a lot of experimentation with different block fillers. I think I tried them all, everything from bowling ball filler, bondo, fiberglass resin, and even Devcon. Darin is right... disaster pretty well describes it.

Something that seems to work quite well is non-shrink machinery grout.
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Postby Darin Morgan » Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:49 pm

SupStk wrote:25 years ago I did a lot of experimentation with different block fillers. I think I tried them all, everything from bowling ball filler, bondo, fiberglass resin, and even Devcon. Darin is right... disaster pretty well describes it.

Something that seems to work quite well is non-shrink machinery grout.


Non-shrink machinery grout, specifically Embeco 885 is the best I have found for cast iron blocks. If you have an aluminum block, I couldn't tell you what to use. The expansion and contraction rates of aluminum would probably negate any filling what so ever.
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Postby timdog » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:40 pm

JB weld expands and contracts with ali very well but is shit to work with - very liquid like.
Loctite metal set A1 and HTA are even better - more pliable when working too and less likely to run everywhere.
I've heard of a few other guys using belzona 1111 in the same way - putty like so no running.
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Postby OldSStroker » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:28 pm

Embeco 885 is a metallic filled concrete-like product. Concrete and cast iron (and steel) have almost the same rate of expansion with temp change (coefficient of thermal expansion). Epoxy and aluminum are quite different.
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Postby Justin Jones » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:16 pm

The Devcon Aluminum is extremely high in aluminum content, and quite chemical resistant it seems...

I was thinking of getting some of the embeco 885 but the block is aluminum... I guess when you think about it, the liners are still iron... On the Hard-Blok website they claim their product works fine with aluminum blocks but I'm not sure how I feel about it... I want more CONCRETE evidence. (please excuse the pun I couldn't resist.)
Last edited by Justin Jones on Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Justin Jones » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:02 am

here's a link to some 'honda guys' (imho not exactly the cream of the crop of honda guys) filling the top inch of their blocks with devcon...


http://www.honda-tech.com/zeropost?cmd=tshow&id=1444721
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Postby headman » Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:45 pm

Justin Jones wrote:here's a link to some 'honda guys' (imho not exactly the cream of the crop of honda guys) filling the top inch of their blocks with devcon...


http://www.honda-tech.com/zeropost?cmd=tshow&id=1444721


That was good for a laugh on Sunday night! :lol:
What language is that in anyway?


Just think of all the extra trouble I've been going through installing Darton sleeves. :-k

Wait... maybe I should put the devcon around the Darton sleeves for that MAD BOOST :roll:
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Postby timdog » Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:59 pm

The loctite hta is aluminium based and good to 374 degrees
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Postby RRBD » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:56 pm

Darren, have you ever tried Belzona or Moglice in a cast iron block? I started using Moglice while I was working for a Machine Tool Manufacturer and think it would work well in a block, at least check it out. It is used to repair machine ways. Devitt Machinery Company is the place to look. Moglice is maufactured by Diamont.

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Postby SchmidtMotorWorks » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:53 am

I don't know if it still exists but I knew a guy that used "iron tight" to seal or fill blocks (I don't remember which), it was 15 years ago.

He would fill the water jacket and presurize it for a day or so.
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Postby Darin Morgan » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:31 am

RRBD wrote:Darren, have you ever tried Belzona or Moglice in a cast iron block? I started using Moglice while I was working for a Machine Tool Manufacturer and think it would work well in a block, at least check it out. It is used to repair machine ways. Devitt Machinery Company is the place to look. Moglice is maufactured by Diamont.

Scott
I have not heard of either of those. I would like some more info on both if you wish to share that information.
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Postby RRBD » Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:54 am

Here's the link: http://www.moglice.com/

You can Google for Belzona and find info on it.

Moglice has similar thermal expansion rate as Cast Iron.
I have used it for Bore replication, installing Spindle Cartridge's, for Air Bearings as well as repairing the Bedways of a large Horizontal Boring Mill, just to name a few.
I have also used it in Intake Ports, but it's a pain using the liquid stuff, now I use Splash Zone Compound on Intake Ports, but I have been meaning to try the Moglice Putty, as I think it would be more permanent than the Z-Spar stuff in ports.

They have chemicals to make it set up really fast as well.

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