I helped dyno a 540ci BBC a couple weeks ago (I was the gofer that day) and much like the metering block pictured from Jdavis, the customer's also had "poor" machining work, worse IMO... I didn't take pictures. The other thing I noticed was during jet changes, it just wasn't a smooth operation. I don't know if it was a poor threading operation from BG...? It almost felt like, well, two dissimilar metals that had been together for a very long time.
Clark
Why do Demon carbs get a bad rap?
Moderator: Team
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sleeper sedan
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Tech@BG
We did have both and the subject has been discussed openly on many forums by us since. As mentioned later into this thread we did have an issue with shavings a couple of years ago and took many steps to help eliminate this and since the number of returns we see for shaivngs has just about ceased.dfree383 wrote:BG Had (Has?) a bunch of Quality Issues and Customer Service Issues.
Some of the things we changed added are a timed sonic wash for the metering blocks, vacuum systems placed under some of the assembly stations, the way in which parts are stored and transported from the machine shop to the assembly areas has changed as well as some accountability measures including technician stamps. Qc is something that we do take seriously and we are always looking at and adding new procedures to continue to improve it.
In regards to the customer service issues there was a time where that got out of hand as well and customers were not being treated properly as well as warranty repairs not being handled in a timely fashion. Emails and phone messages were not being returned as well. To correct this issue Barry went in and made changes to the tech department which resulted in the replacement of the director of tech services and all of those who were under him. We have spent the last 18 months or so constantly improving the service that our customers receive and as a result do not see anywhere close to the complaints regarding service that we did before. In looking at the complaints in this thread it appears that most of them probably occured prior to these changes being made as well.
Are we ever going to turn out a product that never has any kind of qc issue again or make everybody 100% happy all of the time? no ...but at least I can say in the last couple of years that we are striving to achieve this and have made much progress.
Last edited by Tech@BG on Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tech@BG
In regards to the pics with the booster sticking out I agree that carb should have been sent back in to be corrected but it also should have never left here like that. Around the same time as we were having shavings issues we would also see an occasional carburetor with the boosters installed incorrectly in this manner. Between a combination of awareness, training and accountability I have not seen any boosters installed in this manner in quite awhile. I also now randomly pull carburetors for inspection after coming off the line and haven't found any with boosters like this in months. Hopefully that issue is behind us now as well.
In regards to the metering block issues I have forwarded this to our plant manager and we will have to look a little further into it to see what if any changes can be made.
In regards to the metering block issues I have forwarded this to our plant manager and we will have to look a little further into it to see what if any changes can be made.
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Tech@BG
Sometimes if it is the first time the jets are being changed they can be a little tight dpeending upon how tight they were installed on the line. In cases where they dont start out with just a little twist I will lightly tap the end of the jet driver with a hammer while on the jet and then they will spin in and out freely.sleeper sedan wrote:I helped dyno a 540ci BBC a couple weeks ago (I was the gofer that day) and much like the metering block pictured from Jdavis, the customer's also had "poor" machining work, worse IMO... I didn't take pictures. The other thing I noticed was during jet changes, it just wasn't a smooth operation. I don't know if it was a poor threading operation from BG...? It almost felt like, well, two dissimilar metals that had been together for a very long time.
Clark
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machine shop tom
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And THAT'S how this kind if thing is fixed.Tech@BG wrote:...... To correct this iise Barry went in and made changes to the tech department which resulted in the replacement of the director of tech services and all of those who were under him. We have spent the last 18 months or so constantly improving the service that our customers recieve .........
What comes around goes around......eventually.
Good luck, Tech@BG.
tom
Pray for a secular future.
We used to speak to tell things , now they tell things to speak.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
We used to speak to tell things , now they tell things to speak.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
I am willing to let you fellas have another crack at the boosters if you want. They are still as pictured. I'm about to graduate with a bs in mechanical engineering, and short of days becoming 30 hours long I wont be messing with it anytime soon. I'd take one of the vac sec mighty demon main bodies, or a 750 body with annular boosters if thats what youd rather do. Or just another one like I have minus the goofed booster install. It really wasnt something that the owner would have known to return because he wouldnt know what he was looking for/at.Tech@BG wrote:In regards to the pics with the booster sticking out I agree that carb should have been sent back in to be corrected but it also should have never left here like that. Around the same time as we were having shavings issues we would also see an occasional carburetor with the boosters installed incorrectly in this manner. Between a combination of awareness, training and accountability I have not seen any boosters installed in this manner in quite awhile. I also now randomly pull carburetors for inspection after coming off the line and haven't found any with boosters like this in months. Hopefully that issue is behind us now as well.
In regards to the metering block issues I have forwarded this to our plant manager and we will have to look a little further into it to see what if any changes can be made.
As for the metering blocks they are fairly nice I just have found a few carbs that seem to idle very rich and when I look closely alot of times there is a cross leak on the back side right into the transfer slot. If the area that seals the gasket was about 2x what it was it wouldnt have occurred I dont think. I will also say I have noticed some revision in the machining program on the blocks over time.
I'm glad to see that a rep would come here and respond to this thread. Its good that you are adressing the issues and taking drastic measures to correct issues. Those are all things that need to be done and we cant see from the outside at all, if everyone else here is like me once we get a bad taste in our mouth about something its real hard to get over it.
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Tech@BG
If you'll box that one up and send it back to us along with a copy of this thread I'll get the guys in the back to pull the boosters and swedge in some new ones that fit flush like they should.jdavis wrote:I am willing to let you fellas have another crack at the boosters if you want. They are still as pictured. I'm about to graduate with a bs in mechanical engineering, and short of days becoming 30 hours long I wont be messing with it anytime soon. I'd take one of the vac sec mighty demon main bodies, or a 750 body with annular boosters if thats what youd rather do. Or just another one like I have minus the goofed booster install. It really wasnt something that the owner would have known to return because he wouldnt know what he was looking for/at.
As for the metering blocks they are fairly nice I just have found a few carbs that seem to idle very rich and when I look closely alot of times there is a cross leak on the back side right into the transfer slot. If the area that seals the gasket was about 2x what it was it wouldnt have occurred I dont think. I will also say I have noticed some revision in the machining program on the blocks over time.
I'm glad to see that a rep would come here and respond to this thread. Its good that you are adressing the issues and taking drastic measures to correct issues. Those are all things that need to be done and we cant see from the outside at all, if everyone else here is like me once we get a bad taste in our mouth about something its real hard to get over it.
Sure, i'll even tear it down to just the main body for you. Pm me a shipping adress and instructions so nobody gets confused on your end when it shows up and I will box it up and get it on its way.
Thank you for going above and beyond what you're required to do in order to fix the problem. Its a very rare thing to get help from a manufacturer these days after the fact like this. To me that is worth quite a bit when somebody puts thier money where thier mouth is so to speak.
Thank you for going above and beyond what you're required to do in order to fix the problem. Its a very rare thing to get help from a manufacturer these days after the fact like this. To me that is worth quite a bit when somebody puts thier money where thier mouth is so to speak.
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Tech@BG
If you want to send me the whole carb I'll let them tear it down and replace them, that way they can flow test it after to make sure there are no other issues. I'll send you a pm.jdavis wrote:Sure, i'll even tear it down to just the main body for you. Pm me a shipping adress and instructions so nobody gets confused on your end when it shows up and I will box it up and get it on its way.
Thank you for going above and beyond what you're required to do in order to fix the problem. Its a very rare thing to get help from a manufacturer these days after the fact like this. To me that is worth quite a bit when somebody puts thier money where thier mouth is so to speak.
HEAR! HEAR! :thumbs:jdavis wrote:... I'm glad to see that a rep would come here and respond to this thread. Its good that you are adressing the issues and taking drastic measures to correct issues...
This is a little late to the thread, but FWIW - my experience with a BG 750 Demon was similar to above-mentioned experiences in that it was RICH at idle, like just a step or two better than eye-watering and I am no carb guru at all, but did spend a few hours experimenting with jetting to get it at least acceptable but could never get it quite right, the best I could get it to run was with a soggy off-idle transition. Motor was a 454 BBC + 0.030", stock '66 Chevelle SS round-port heads, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, UltraDyne 280/288-110, and Hedman headers. This was many years ago, in hindsight I may not have had the timing curve right so must admit that may have been a big part of the tuning issue as well.
Mr. P.
Either learn to fix it, or learn to write checks.
I can do that and that sounds like good practice, but you should know there have been a several changes to the metering system (emulsion, mab, iab, ifr etc). Depending on how your flow test is setup the test may or may not be useless with the way the carb sits currently. Like I said earlier I was halfway through a bit of rough calibration work (using a tuneup that was near one I have been sucessful with a couple of times before on similar engines) and then noticed this problem and shelved the whole deal because I basically have no time to spare right now. Let me know what you think.Tech@BG wrote:If you want to send me the whole carb I'll let them tear it down and replace them, that way they can flow test it after to make sure there are no other issues. I'll send you a pm.
Once again this shows some strong character from the guys at BG. I hope all the people who were watching before still check back in and see how you have handled yourself. I will make a thread when I get it back and post before and after pics or whatever your findings were if you dont mind. I will also link to it on a couple of others places where I hang around.
I hope I can find time to get it on its way tommorrow.
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Tech@BG
Shouldn't be an issue as we can still check the idle fuel percentages as well as the wot. Also can ck for leaks and make sure nothing looks too far off base.jdavis wrote:I can do that and that sounds like good practice, but you should know there have been a several changes to the metering system (emulsion, mab, iab, ifr etc). Depending on how your flow test is setup the test may or may not be useless with the way the carb sits currently. Like I said earlier I was halfway through a bit of rough calibration work (using a tuneup that was near one I have been sucessful with a couple of times before on similar engines) and then noticed this problem and shelved the whole deal because I basically have no time to spare right now. Let me know what you think.
Once again this shows some strong character from the guys at BG. I hope all the people who were watching before still check back in and see how you have handled yourself. I will make a thread when I get it back and post before and after pics or whatever your findings were if you dont mind. I will also link to it on a couple of others places where I hang around.
I hope I can find time to get it on its way tommorrow.
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rmcomprandy
As "jdavis" has eluded to, it's all about TRUST in the product.
Not necessarily by the end user so much but, by the engine builders and dyno opperators who do the recomending of certain equipment to that end user.
Once HIS trust in a certain product has been taken away, it is very difficult to get it back again.
Not necessarily by the end user so much but, by the engine builders and dyno opperators who do the recomending of certain equipment to that end user.
Once HIS trust in a certain product has been taken away, it is very difficult to get it back again.