Most power out of a 23* head pumpgas smallblock?

[lun40119]

I talked to a friend that knows Phil pretty well. That car has an 8" ATI and a 9inch rear. I would say that it is alittle more than 15% loss.

[John W]

What about this guy..............

http://advancedinduction.com/

Whats the deal with this thing I think it is the same cube and style as your engine.............do the math I used the calculator at Prosystems.

Well, that one has me scratching my head. It's showing ~758hp assuming it is indeed an auto. No doubt that body style is worth some mph over old chevelle/camaro body styles that I'm more familiar with.........but damn.

[bigjoe1]

When it is too good to be true, It usually is ( NOT TRUE)

JOE SHERMAN RACING

[SStrokerAce]

When it is too good to be true, It usually is ( NOT TRUE)

JOE SHERMAN RACING

That's why I like you Joe!

[lun40119]

Opinions are great........Here is another. 3400 lbs, 383cubes 9.55 @141.9 is really hauling the mail. Fast Fat Boy, perhaps if you want more give Phil a call. He sounds like a pretty nice guy.

Jake

[CamKing]

Fast Fat Boy, perhaps if you want more give Phil a call. He sounds like a pretty nice guy.

and unlike some other so-called LT1 experts, he doesn't just re-box other people's products and sell them for a big profit. He CNC ports all his heads in-house.

[FASTFATBOY]

I need to be able to streetdrive it, I mean REALLY streetdrive it. Like I do now.

Thats the determining factor. I KNOW I can go faster with a pure race setup. More cam, race fuel, FAST system I can make a bit more.

The Ai car is definately the exception, NOT the rule. He cant hop in that car and drive it 80 miles on the interstate.

Ed Wright also built a bad ass 383 LT1, It ran 9.90's with stock casting LT4 heads and intake, worked of course. I am pretty sure he was heavier than the Ai car.

[airflowdevelop]

and unlike some other so-called LT1 experts, he doesn't just re-box other people's products and sell them for a big profit. He CNC ports all his heads in-house.

Last I talked to Phil and Ron they were still subcontracting the CNC end of things??? Did they end up getting a machine?

[airflowdevelop]

I need to be able to streetdrive it, I mean REALLY streetdrive it. Like I do now.

Thats the determining factor. I KNOW I can go faster with a pure race setup. More cam, race fuel, FAST system I can make a bit more.

The Ai car is definately the exception, NOT the rule. He cant hop in that car and drive it 80 miles on the interstate.

Ed Wright also built a bad ass 383 LT1, It ran 9.90's with stock casting LT4 heads and intake, worked of course. I am pretty sure he was heavier than the Ai car.

Here's my .02..

1. I highly doubt that you are making 600fwhp right now. If you took the engine down and strapped it on Meaux's dyno I would figure you will see 540-555 hp. the whole drivetrain loss % deal has gotten out of hand lately...

2. so figuring on 550hp... A good bit of power is left in your combination... if you want to believe that or not is a different story. 630-650 should be well within the range of reality. Easy though.... it will not be. Everything must be RIGHT ON!

3. Like I have said before... A ported intake would be a nice start and get the heads up to snuff.

How would any of this change how driveable the car is?

[lun40119]

Last I talked to Phil and Ron they were still subcontracting the CNC end of things??? Did they end up getting a machine?

I will ask Duane if he knows the answer for a fact on that one. He and Jim were there in Oct. I thought he had his own machine.

[FASTFATBOY]

Here's my .02..

1. I highly doubt that you are making 600fwhp right now. If you took the engine down and strapped it on Meaux's dyno I would figure you will see 540-555 hp. the whole drivetrain loss % deal has gotten out of hand lately...

2. so figuring on 550hp... A good bit of power is left in your combination... if you want to believe that or not is a different story. 630-650 should be well within the range of reality. Easy though.... it will not be. Everything must be RIGHT ON!

3. Like I have said before... A ported intake would be a nice start and get the heads up to snuff.

How would any of this change how driveable the car is?

It wouldnt really, a cam change would affect the streetability though. I figured thats where I needed to go to get another 100 hp Along with more intake tract work. I aint gonna get another 100 hp with only port work.

Hmm 470 hp to the tires through a 4L60e trans, 43 lb converter, 3 inch steel driveshft, 9 inch rear, Detroit locker, 4.11 gear, 325/50 drag radials, and all the accesories including A/C on the front of the engine? And it only sucked up 80 hp? Not saying I am wrong but. On an engine dyno its gonna have nothing on the front OR back of the engine. With the exception of a balancer and flywheel.

550 hp to push a 3750lb car 1o 124 mph?

I know I am not anywhere NEAR the knowledege level of the guys on here.

Even if it did only make 550, aint bad for pumpgas 383.

But like all guys who like fast things, I though the 10.95 pass would seal the deal, that was the goal when all this was started. But as all of you know it was only a passifier for a short while. Then it went 10.84 and the lid came back off the can of worms so to say.

Now I am looking for a 10.69 LOL. Thats why I made this post.

[airflowdevelop]

the speed drug can be worse than heroin...

550 REAL hp doesn't seem to far off to me.

I would say 25-30 hp is easily obtainable in a properly worked manifold.

I would also think 25-30hp is obtainable working on the velocity profile of the heads... possibly more. You have a very big cylinder head that isn't moving a ton of air... these are the easiest ones to find hp on.

and sure... tweaking the valve events could net another 15-20hp.

it all adds up in the end!

[airflowdevelop]

also... I don't agree on the drivetrain loss % deal.

In my experience it takes almost a fixed amount of hp to turn the driveline components mass a certain RPM. another fixed amount is lost in friction. and another fixed amount in accelerating the mass. Once you have reached your RPM goal, then the only loss that increases as HP increases is the energy to accelerate the mass quicker.

I have seen a number of engines show the addition of 200hp from nitrous on the engine dyno...and show 195-198 RWHP on a dynojet 2 days later.

The whole 15-20-25% deal is a joke IMO! It just doesn't work that way!

I use the percentage deal to compare from dyno to dyno...but not from Engine dyno to Chassis dyno! Plus whose calibration are you figuring for anyways?

Also... after a number of auto to manual... and back again swaps over the years the worse loss I have ever seen was a TH400 swapped in place of a T-5. It cost 32Rwhp with a good converter.

If your tranny is eating up 100+ Rwhp like many think... get a new converter / Transmission guy! He's doing it wrong!

[SStrokerAce]

and unlike some other so-called LT1 experts, he doesn't just re-box other people's products and sell them for a big profit. He CNC ports all his heads in-house.

I wouldn't consider going down the block to Jerry's place "In-House", not to mention getting grinding help from outside sources who have BTDT for years and can actually shape a short turn!

[lun40119]

I wasn't trying to start a war. I have seen two of their creations in person. Duanes car.....performs extremely well. It is mild enough for his wife to drive gramma to the grocery store, he drives it to work and bangs off 11 second passes, with what most would consider a small HR. And Jims car, that he drives everyday (rain snow, ice) that runs mid 13's at 4400lbs. I am not saying that AI is any better or worse than anyone else, however they do produce cars that perform very well at the track.

Jake

Edited to include Jims car as the second car of the two I have seen. Got too quick with the submit button