Most power out of a 23* head pumpgas smallblock?

[GrannySShifting]

Sounds pretty healthy ryan. What did it run at what weight?

3200 lbs Id guessing 9.20s-9.30s, pretty healthy pump gas engine especially for the timeframe

[flyin ryan]

Well...to be honest i never ran the engine with that (740) power. i freshened & did some updates (4/7 cam FO swap, little different profile) to the engine, then after i dynoed, the numbers i posted, a customer of mine wanted to buy it. so i sold it to him & started working on my current pump gas Little Chief, the 23º 395 never made it back into my car.
when the 395 was in my car it was only making 705 HP. TQ. was almost identical to the numbers posted, couple/few points down only. the car weighted 3050LBS. going down the track. thats the good, now for the bad...it's a C-3 Corvette that was running the factory I.R.S. rear end, which is...well junk, for a ¼ mile car. foot brake only for obvious reasons, 10" tire. best it ran was 9.54 ET @ 145 MPH, that was at 2200 FT. altitude (3250 FT. corrected). i did manage to eek out what i think was some decent 60's, best of a 1.325, considering the limitations i had to deal with in the rear end. i'm glad the I.R.S. is long gone, my Little Chief would make quick work of that stuff . sorry to run on so long. just trying to give the facts .

[FASTFATBOY]

Well...to be honest i never ran the engine with that (740) power. i freshened & did some updates (4/7 cam FO swap, little different profile) to the engine, then after i dynoed, the numbers i posted, a customer of mine wanted to buy it. so i sold it to him & started working on my current pump gas Little Chief, the 23º 395 never made it back into my car.
when the 395 was in my car it was only making 705 HP. TQ. was almost identical to the numbers posted, couple/few points down only. the car weighted 3050LBS. going down the track. thats the good, now for the bad...it's a C-3 Corvette that was running the factory I.R.S. rear end, which is...well junk, for a ¼ mile car. foot brake only for obvious reasons, 10" tire. best it ran was 9.54 ET @ 145 MPH, that was at 2200 FT. altitude (3250 FT. corrected). i did manage to eek out what i think was some decent 60's, best of a 1.325, considering the limitations i had to deal with in the rear end. i'm glad the I.R.S. is long gone, my Little Chief would make quick work of that stuff . sorry to run on so long. just trying to give the facts .

Thats DAMN impressive.

[flyin ryan]

Thats DAMN impressive.

Thanks, nice of you to say . it didn't happen overnight, thats for sure.

[Fatman]

This threads kinda moved around a little but i've just picked up on it. so back to the original question...my 'old' personal small block was 395 cube (4.125" X 3.70") wet sump Bow-Tie alum. block (10185075), 12.37:1 C/R, Pontiac '867' 23º heads ('true' 23º, no angle milling etc.) 235cc Int. volume, 2.48² min.C.S.A., 2.175" Int./1.60" Exh. valve's, Int. rocker off-set .350", Bullet cam I. 274º/E. 280º @ .050", I. .745"/E. .678" lift, 108L/S, Brodix HV 1002 intake w/ a 4150/4500 adapter, lots of epoxy between intake & adapter trasitions, Holley 950 HP, Moroso vac. pump-12"-13" vacuum, 1.875"/2" stepped headers X 3½ collector. last time i dynoed this engine was Sept. 2005 & uesd 94 octane fuel straight from the pump. 300 RPM/Second Accl. rate, was 564 ft./lbs. @ 6250 RPM & 740 HP @ 7500 RPM. i beat on that combination for a lot of years (1994) but it worked good for a 23º deal. the aluminum block didn't help power but the car liked it. even drove the car to the track 95% of the time.

Very impressive numbers and more importantly track performance!

Did you ever try more carb on it? 1000Hp/Dominator?

[flyin ryan]

Very impressive numbers and more importantly track performance!

Did you ever try more carb on it? 1000Hp/Dominator?

Thanks 'Fatman', again much appreciated. since i'm up North, i don't get much ink (IE: nobody of any importance, per say, has ever really seen the car run) i should point out just for credibility, i was picked for Hot Rods '50' fastest pump gas cars/drags a few years ago. we were suppossed to be notified by the end of Feb. but there was a screw up in E-Mails & Hot Rod didn't get ahold of me until the third week of April & i think the race was the second? week of May, so i didn't have enough time to get my act together to go, be like a three day drive one way for me, so that was the end of my so-called claim to fame...still not real happy about how i was treated in that deal. kinda like...'don't call us, we'll call you'...even when i tried to call, to get a hold of somebody at Hot Rod magizine is...well...lets say i've done easier things!
i did try a Dominator but....the Brodix intake WAS a Dominator style but i had epoxied it up to blend in with the 4150/4500 adapter. that intake has the 'cloverliefs' for the butterflys...well they were totally epoxied & i would have had to bust all that out to allow the butterflys to work, & i wasn't doing that. so i left my 'normal' blended 2" spacer/adapter on, then added another 4150/4500 adapter with no work on. so from the top it went Dominator-4150-slowly blended back out to the Dominator manifold with the epoxy. end of story...the best we could get it, messing with air bleeds & jetting, was real close to as good as my 4150 set-up. not as good...but semi-close. sorry to be long winded again but not a YES or NO answer wasn't fair, i felt.

[3V Performance]

This threads kinda moved around a little but i've just picked up on it. so back to the original question...my 'old' personal small block was 395 cube (4.125" X 3.70") wet sump Bow-Tie alum. block (10185075), 12.37:1 C/R, Pontiac '867' 23º heads ('true' 23º, no angle milling etc.) 235cc Int. volume, 2.48² min.C.S.A., 2.175" Int./1.60" Exh. valve's, Int. rocker off-set .350", Bullet cam I. 274º/E. 280º @ .050", I. .745"/E. .678" lift, 108L/S, Brodix HV 1002 intake w/ a 4150/4500 adapter, lots of epoxy between intake & adapter trasitions, Holley 950 HP, Moroso vac. pump-12"-13" vacuum, 1.875"/2" stepped headers X 3½ collector. last time i dynoed this engine was Sept. 2005 & uesd 94 octane fuel straight from the pump. 300 RPM/Second Accl. rate, was 564 ft./lbs. @ 6250 RPM & 740 HP @ 7500 RPM. i beat on that combination for a lot of years (1994) but it worked good for a 23º deal. the aluminum block didn't help power but the car liked it. even drove the car to the track 95% of the time.

Nice job indeed.

What brand pump fuel did you use? and what did your total timing end up at?
How long before the new one is ready?

Tom

[Pacer377]

Hello to all. I’m kinda new to the board, but have been racing for some time. I’ve had the same car (in different forms) since 1976. Haven’t had it out in a long time but that will change this summer. In the late 80’s early 94’s we ran a 377 with some -11x sp's on it. We beat the snot out of it for a number of years. This was a pump gas engine that we drove on the street. It weight in at 2810 wet with the street trim and ran mid 9.70’s
@ 138-140. This engine was a 10.0-1, 990 carb from the Carb Shop. Ultradyne spun us up a cam 279@ .05, .704 with a 1.65 rocker on the intake and 283 @.05, .640 with 1.5 on the exhaust on a 106. I ported the heads and they flowed decent for the time 335 @.700.
The engine made 648@7500 and tq was a little over 500 from 5750 to 6250. Looking forward to getting info of this board, and going racing again.

[flyin ryan]

This threads kinda moved around a little but i've just picked up on it. so back to the original question...my 'old' personal small block was 395 cube (4.125" X 3.70") wet sump Bow-Tie alum. block (10185075), 12.37:1 C/R, Pontiac '867' 23º heads ('true' 23º, no angle milling etc.) 235cc Int. volume, 2.48² min.C.S.A., 2.175" Int./1.60" Exh. valve's, Int. rocker off-set .350", Bullet cam I. 274º/E. 280º @ .050", I. .745"/E. .678" lift, 108L/S, Brodix HV 1002 intake w/ a 4150/4500 adapter, lots of epoxy between intake & adapter trasitions, Holley 950 HP, Moroso vac. pump-12"-13" vacuum, 1.875"/2" stepped headers X 3½ collector. last time i dynoed this engine was Sept. 2005 & uesd 94 octane fuel straight from the pump. 300 RPM/Second Accl. rate, was 564 ft./lbs. @ 6250 RPM & 740 HP @ 7500 RPM. i beat on that combination for a lot of years (1994) but it worked good for a 23º deal. the aluminum block didn't help power but the car liked it. even drove the car to the track 95% of the time.

Nice job indeed.

What brand pump fuel did you use? and what did your total timing end up at?
How long before the new one is ready?

Tom

I'm sure 98% of the guys on here have never heard of the fuel i use. it's around western Canada, more specifically Alberta/British Columbia. they brand it under two names, Husky or Mohawk. best stuff around these parts. i tested it against all other fuels in the area over a 13 month span & 14 engines. it always came out on top, every single time. the 395 liked 36º timing. pistons were coated, FYI.
My Little Chief's been done for a while, still pump gas . 3rd time out, i was foot braking, it dead hooked & ended up on the rear bumper . little more power than my 23º 395, LOL. came down pretty hard , busted the trans. case, cracked the passenger side front fender, carb tried going through the hood. oil pan took a lick too. engine, rims, tires & headers all survived o.k. damage is all fixed so waiting for spring. BTW, didn't HAVE wheelie bars, still don't HAVE wheelie bars .

[greywolf]

Ryan,
would the fuel you are talking about be the ethanol blended premium gas.
(10% ethanol added).

[tod85]

I'm curious as to what is the most power you can make with a 23 degree head with a hyd roller cam these days ? I know some of the newer extreme hyd roller cams coming from competion cams have some pretty agressive lobes.....

[new engine builder]

I'm curious as to what is the most power you can make with a 23 degree head with a hyd roller cam these days ? I know some of the newer extreme hyd roller cams coming from competion cams have some pretty agressive lobes.....

A well known engine builder from Ohio claims out of a 434 on pump gas with Dart 230 cc heads,hyd. roller,619 hp at 6,400 rpms and 568 lbs. of torque at 4,900 rpms.

[Troy Patterson]

i did try a Dominator but....the Brodix intake WAS a Dominator style but i had epoxied it up to blend in with the 4150/4500 adapter. that intake has the 'cloverliefs' for the butterflys...well they were totally epoxied & i would have had to bust all that out to allow the butterflys to work, & i wasn't doing that. so i left my 'normal' blended 2" spacer/adapter on, then added another 4150/4500 adapter with no work on. so from the top it went Dominator-4150-slowly blended back out to the Dominator manifold with the epoxy. end of story...the best we could get it, messing with air bleeds & jetting, was real close to as good as my 4150 set-up. not as good...but semi-close. sorry to be long winded again but not a YES or NO answer wasn't fair, i felt.

You are loosing lots of power running the 750 carb with a 850 base plate. Unfortunately, the comparison you did was not a good one.

Troy Patterson TMPCarbs.net TMPCarbs

[tod85]

I'm curious as to what is the most power you can make with a 23 degree head with a hyd roller cam these days ? I know some of the newer extreme hyd roller cams coming from competion cams have some pretty agressive lobes.....

A well known engine builder from Ohio claims out of a 434 on pump gas with Dart 230 cc heads,hyd. roller,619 hp at 6,400 rpms and 568 lbs. of torque at 4,900 rpms.

do you know what cam spec they are using on that ?

Thanks for the info !

[flyin ryan]

i did try a Dominator but....the Brodix intake WAS a Dominator style but i had epoxied it up to blend in with the 4150/4500 adapter. that intake has the 'cloverliefs' for the butterflys...well they were totally epoxied & i would have had to bust all that out to allow the butterflys to work, & i wasn't doing that. so i left my 'normal' blended 2" spacer/adapter on, then added another 4150/4500 adapter with no work on. so from the top it went Dominator-4150-slowly blended back out to the Dominator manifold with the epoxy. end of story...the best we could get it, messing with air bleeds & jetting, was real close to as good as my 4150 set-up. not as good...but semi-close. sorry to be long winded again but not a YES or NO answer wasn't fair, i felt.

You are loosing lots of power running the 750 carb with a 850 base plate. Unfortunately, the comparison you did was not a good one.

Troy Patterson TMPCarbs.net TMPCarbs

Um...who said anything about a 750/850 combo?? pretty bold saying i'm losing 'LOTS' of power, running a 23º 395 on pump gas making 740HP. everyone on here thinks it's pretty impressive. your a hard sell. not trying to be argumentive with you but we seem to be on different wave-lenghts . yes i know the Dominator experiment was not a good one, thats why i explained it in detail, to be fair so everyone would understand it wasn't a good comparison from the get go. i'm a 4150 guy & 'outside influences' were pushing me to try it. i run the same 4150 on my Little Chief that was on my 395. when i sold that engine i kept my carb.