Most power out of a 23* head pumpgas smallblock?

SStrokerAce · Post by **SStrokerAce** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Jake,

I've seen Ricks car (Ai posterchild) and Ed Wrights car (not a Ai car) run down the strip at Englishtown back to back, both moved really (low 10's)well and both were very well ironed out cars. That's most of what it takes to do that. I also have customers who run a 1/2 sec quicker than Dwyane with the same car and cubes, they just don't have to pay off the 1/2 price fire sale on parts with free advertising.

I'm just talking from first hand experience in what I say, when you sit down and eat dinner or shake the hand of the guys who are doing this "in-house" work it makes me wonder what these people actually "know" when I see things like this on the net.

Some very well put together cars run some good numbers, but the BS around it and thug style advertising Speedtalk is not the place for.

Bret

tod85 · Post by **tod85** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:50 pm

For what its worth, my sim, which I trust, has you at 580 HP to hit 124 mph @ 3800 lbs in a typical late model F-body aero at a sealevel track in good air...... its short of 600, but in my opinion, is pretty darn respectable, especially for a 383..... congrats on a very nice set-up !

And btw, put that thing on a diet.

FASTFATBOY wrote:It wouldnt really, a cam change would affect the streetability though. I figured thats where I needed to go to get another 100 hp Along with more intake tract work. I aint gonna get another 100 hp with only port work.

Hmm 470 hp to the tires through a 4L60e trans, 43 lb converter, 3 inch steel driveshft, 9 inch rear, Detroit locker, 4.11 gear, 325/50 drag radials, and all the accesories including A/C on the front of the engine? And it only sucked up 80 hp? Not saying I am wrong but. On an engine dyno its gonna have nothing on the front OR back of the engine. With the exception of a balancer and flywheel.

550 hp to push a 3750lb car 1o 124 mph?

I know I am not anywhere NEAR the knowledege level of the guys on here.

Even if it did only make 550, aint bad for pumpgas 383.

But like all guys who like fast things, I though the 10.95 pass would seal the deal, that was the goal when all this was started. But as all of you know it was only a passifier for a short while. Then it went 10.84 and the lid came back off the can of worms so to say.

Now I am looking for a 10.69 LOL. Thats why I made this post.

Post by **CamKing** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:05 pm

airflowdevelop wrote:Last I talked to Phil and Ron they were still subcontracting the CNC end of things??? Did they end up getting a machine?

Yes, they've got a really nice 5 axis. I forgot the brand, but it's one of the ones you can open up and not have to lean way over to work on.
The shop is about a 15 minute drive from my house, and I've been over there a few times.
I had AI work on a couple motorcycle head projects for me, and they came out really nice.

I don't know if they've got the best port designs in the world, but it's nice to know the guy selling you the parts is the same guy that made them.
That's becoming less and less common these days. You've got companies like Edelbrock selling the same exact cams that you can buy from 20 different venders, and all of them are made by the same cam company. You've got "Internet Valvetrain Experts" picking lobes out of the back of the Comp Cams catalog and calling them their cam designs.

lun40119 · Post by **lun40119** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:14 pm

SStrokerAce wrote:Jake,

I've seen Ricks car (Ai posterchild) and Ed Wrights car (not a Ai car) run down the strip at Englishtown back to back, both moved really (low 10's)well and both were very well ironed out cars. That's most of what it takes to do that. I also have customers who run a 1/2 sec quicker than Dwyane with the same car and cubes, they just don't have to pay off the 1/2 price fire sale on parts with free advertising.

I'm just talking from first hand experience in what I say, when you sit down and eat dinner or shake the hand of the guys who are doing this "in-house" work it makes me wonder what these people actually "know" when I see things like this on the net.

Some very well put together cars run some good numbers, but the BS around it and thug style advertising Speedtalk is not the place for.

Bret

Bret,

I have read this response very closely and can come to only one conclusion. All I intended to to by posting the link to AI's website was offer this guy another option. I feel bad that you take offense to that. But you shouldn't assume that I am trying to advertise for this company. I did say that I have not spent any money at AI and don't intend to. Now I don't know if you are in competition with these guys, and frankly, I don't care. I try to limit my posting here for the simple fact that I don't know enough to type. I do however come here everyday to learn. I saw a guy with a LT1 that thinks he has hit a plateau, which really isn't the case. I knew of this website from a couple of guys that I know, so I posted it. If you are this guys head porter, I didn't know that. I would think you would have to agree there is more left. If you think he has hit a plateau, perhaps he should check elsewhere.

To the rest of you here at speedtalk, and especially FastFatBoy, I apologize that Mr. Bauer has seen fit to attack me, instead of to address the original post. I didn't intend to hijack the thread.

lun40119 · Post by **lun40119** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:17 pm

CamKing wrote: You've got "Internet Valvetrain Experts" picking lobes out of the back of the Comp Cams catalog and calling them their cam designs.

Thanks Mike, I had heard about this......

airflowdevelop · Post by **airflowdevelop** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:40 pm

where's the button to get back to regular programming?

camrat68 · Post by **camrat68** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:18 pm

Well, speaking as someone who has actually watched the guys at AI as they're doing their work "in house" and then sitting down to dinner with them I can definitely say that I'm a satisfied customer. Of course, that's just me talking from first-hand experience.

I'm not too sure what you mean about "fire-sale" parts as I was there when he and I both paid for our purchases from AI and the price was only slightly higher than an un-named head porter quoted me. I'm unsure if you mean that they're cheap because they use cam lobes that allow the valvetrain to last more than 500 miles-(17,000mi and counting on mine) or if you think they're stingy because they only take out enough material from the heads to actually make them flow well rather than make huge flow numbers on the bench but fall flat at the track.
An old SStroker once said "The dumber the aduience, the more ***** you can claim." I'm pretty sure that the AUDIENCE here is smart enough to know who's really using the thug-like tactics.
BTW-I haven't seen you on LS1tech or CamaroZ28.com in a while, why is that?

us7race · Post by **us7race** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:50 pm

FASTFATBOY wrote:It wouldnt really, a cam change would affect the streetability though. I figured thats where I needed to go to get another 100 hp Along with more intake tract work. I aint gonna get another 100 hp with only port work.

Hmm 470 hp to the tires through a 4L60e trans, 43 lb converter, 3 inch steel driveshft, 9 inch rear, Detroit locker, 4.11 gear, 325/50 drag radials, and all the accesories including A/C on the front of the engine? And it only sucked up 80 hp? Not saying I am wrong but. On an engine dyno its gonna have nothing on the front OR back of the engine. With the exception of a balancer and flywheel.

550 hp to push a 3750lb car 1o 124 mph?

I know I am not anywhere NEAR the knowledege level of the guys on here.

Even if it did only make 550, aint bad for pumpgas 383.

But like all guys who like fast things, I though the 10.95 pass would seal the deal, that was the goal when all this was started. But as all of you know it was only a passifier for a short while. Then it went 10.84 and the lid came back off the can of worms so to say.

Now I am looking for a 10.69 LOL. Thats why I made this post.

If you go to http://www.wallaceracing.com/accel-calc.php
You can plug in 600HP and 3800 Lbs you get 10.78@124mph..
How accurate is this calculator?

Ed Wright · Post by **Ed Wright** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:40 pm

Last time I talked to Rick (the AI car) it weighed less than 3400 lbs and was on race fuel. I've tuned that car's computer for about six years, and know a little about it. I dont remeber it using pump gas for the last five. I count Rick as a good friend. You also have to know where he races also, upper NY state, near the Canadian border. When the DA gets above sea level, they think the air is "bad".

Rick talks about -300' air like it is the norm. I have never had a chance to run in that kind of air. My 9.91 @ 136 was in 2000' air at the Tulsa on a slick track. My 60' was close to 1/10th offmy Englishtown 60'. I broke the 2nd gear band there, so all my runs were only 1st and 3rd gears. Don't have many tracks around here like some guys get to race on. Some were grumbling about E Town when I was there, some of the locals were complaining that the deal I went to at Englishtown should have been held at Atco, "where the track hooks better". I damn near flipped mine over backwards at E Town. I would need some time to dial mine in on that kind of track prep, and for that kind of air. Rick thought Englishtown was a tad slow. You have to take into acount the conditions they run in.

I have also seen somebody from AI post how Ricks car had full stock interior, even the back seat! But it does not have stock front seats (has light ones), nor a back seat at all. Some of that is just advertising hype.

Rick is sharp, is probably the best foot brake bracket driver I have ever met, and he wins a LOT of electronics bracket races with his "no-e" car. His car has been massaged for a long time. You could hand his parts over to a new guy and he could put them on his car and he would not run anywhere close to Rick's times. Cetainly not if the new guy got his advice and info from any of the F body internet message boards.

David Driver is a great guy, I really like him. And he has a nice car. It is probably the heaviest F boy I know of, and I don't know why. His car makes good torque, but his 60' times are lacking. I think he knows why. Torque converters is one place you dont try to save money, (cylinder heads is another) if you want to run well. Can't tell the F body message boards kids that. They buy off-breed parts for a few dollars less, then ask why their car is a second slower than yours. More than a tenth is in the first 60'.

Sorry this was so long. Better get back to work.

airflowdevelop · Post by **airflowdevelop** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:11 pm

Thank you for clearing things up Ed.

Do you have any data to determine the Converter Eff. on Dave's car... as I posted I am suspecting it could be an issue...but I do not have all the data to review.

I honestly think I want David's car to run more than he does...but I don't know why!

SStrokerAce · Post by **SStrokerAce** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:54 pm

lun40119 wrote: To the rest of you here at speedtalk, and especially FastFatBoy, I apologize that Mr. Bauer has seen fit to attack me, instead of to address the original post. I didn't intend to hijack the thread.

Jake, I didn't "attack" you... sorry if you thought that. Then again I play an asshole on the internet.

Bret

axegrinder · Post by **axegrinder** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:17 am

SStrokerAce wrote:Jake, I didn't "attack" you... sorry if you thought that. Then again I play an asshole on the internet.

Bret

Is it just me or is that funny as hell?

mike ramirez racing · Post by **mike ramirez racing** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:02 am

sounds like you got the power, what does it 60ft? I know you're kinda at a disadvantage being a 3800# car. No intentions of forced induction or alittle funny gas?

FASTFATBOY · Post by **FASTFATBOY** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:50 am

airflowdevelop wrote:Thank you for clearing things up Ed.

Do you have any data to determine the Converter Eff. on Dave's car... as I posted I am suspecting it could be an issue...but I do not have all the data to review.

I honestly think I want David's car to run more than he does...but I don't know why!

Thanks Dennis. And Mr Ed.

The car on the dyno had some problems we didnt discover until I got home. The IAT sensor wire was open and it did not code. It hurt 2 pistons on the dyno.

As far as the converter it is from TCS(The Converter Shop) out in Nevada I think. The car on the dyno made 441 unlocked and 463 locked again this is with 2 hurt pistons. So it seems pretty effecient, but is also heavy.

Best 60 foot so far is a 1.46

The car is heavy partly because of me, I aint no little man. It has a full 4 inch ex all the way to the bumper, sport seats, not aluminum race seats, a/c box is still in the car, factory carpet etc. hey its a streetcar. I have some weigh out of it now so its prolly closer to 3720 ish.

I am gonna try for some more et while I have this good air.

FASTFATBOY · Post by **FASTFATBOY** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:05 pm

I get a kick out of people, man what thin skins we have.

Bret is a straightup guy, he tells it like it is. NOT the way you want to hear it. I like that, I wish MORE were like that. Bret has left some boards for being straight up and honest about paying sponsors and the admins didnt like it...oh well. Brets not a difficult guy, people just take him the wrong way.

Ed Wright is also that way, some people take him as grumpy. Hell I like the guy. If I was closer I would be in his back pocket as much as possible. He tells you like it is. You ask a dumb question, hes gonna hit you in the nose with the answer you got commin'! He is like E.F. Hutton, when he talks people listen. I know I do. He would probably put a knot on my head If I lived closer.

The car when it was stock, with a 9 inch rear and a six speed weighed 3470 lbs with no driver. I am about 290 now. Everything I pulled out to help the weight went back in, rollbar, seatbelts, 4 inch Mufflex, 4L60E, steel driveshaft. It all kinda washed out.

I am gonna 4 corner scale it tommorrow, I have gotten about 50lbs out in the last week or so.

As far as the Ai car, it is impressive. ANd Bret is right it is their "Holy Grail" Every Ai customer on LS1tech thinks this car is a full interior pumpgas streetcar that runs in Denver everytime it goes down the track. Hell I know better, but ya cant tell those guys anything. I know it runs the number, but callit like it is, its a racecar plain and simple.