Cylinder Head Battle !

Wolfplace · Post by **Wolfplace** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:50 pm

Tod85
Looks suspiciously like Wes's deal

revolutionary · Post by **revolutionary** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:08 am

I figured 485 on the afr and 460 on the darts with the camel humps being a who-knows-what. I've dyno'd the afr195 heads with the same cam/compression but on a 383 and came up with 475hp so your numbers match what I got. The articles showing that combo making over 500hp are on REALLY happy dyno's.

tod85 · Post by **tod85** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:43 am

revolutionary wrote:I figured 485 on the afr and 460 on the darts with the camel humps being a who-knows-what. I've dyno'd the afr195 heads with the same cam/compression but on a 383 and came up with 475hp so your numbers match what I got. The articles showing that combo making over 500hp are on REALLY happy dyno's.

I think in the test in this thread a 230/236 cam was used..... in all of the 383's I've seen that go over the magical 500 HP mark with a hyd roller cam have used the 236/242 cam...... which makes since, and very believable that the motor in this test could have gained 10 or more HP to go over 500 with more cam.

Also, the AFR heads in this test were not the competition ported..... thus with the upgraded comp port, its very believable from my perspective that 520+ HP could be seen from a 383, hyd roller cam and 195 cylinder heads. I also want to mention that this test used a Weiand intake manifold.... I've heard the competing Edelbrock is good for another 5-10 hp over this manifold...... but, I don't know if that is fact or fiction for certainty.

tod85 · Post by **tod85** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:57 am

Wolfplace wrote:Tod85
Looks suspiciously like Wes's deal

yeap.

tt 383 · Post by **tt 383** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:34 pm

Do you have a flow sheet, numbers for the iron heads? Or maybe an exhaust to intake ratio for the iron heads? I just wonder how much is left with the narrow I/E duration split. I would think a cam thats optimized more so for the AFR/DART heads would make less on the less effiecent iron heads. I remember the GM offroad cam, heads like that would have been seeing 12 degrees split or so........

tod85 · Post by **tod85** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:08 pm

They reported the flow #s as below, there are also some Dart 180's flow tested as well, but were not part of the dyno.

The Dart 180's poured 191 cc
The Dart 200's poured 201 cc
The AFR 195's poured 194 cc
The fuelies poured 191 cc

INTAKE DATA (@28" of water with radiused entry on all heads

LIFT.... fuelies---Dart 180---Dart 200---- AFR 195 (street)

.200....146…….......124……....….143……...……154

.300……195…….......184……...….195……....……216

.400……239…......….225……...….238……....……256

.500……252…......….251……...….268………....…282

.550……257…......….258……...….272……....……281

.600……260…......….261……...….271…....………280

.650……262…......….261……...….271……....……280

.700……264…......….262……...….271………....…280

EXHAUST DATA (@28" w/1.75 exhaust tube)

.200……123……123……….116…………127

.300……158……151……….151…………173

.400……183……177……….180…………210

.500……199……198……….200…………230

.600……208……213……….211…………236

.700……214

tt 383 · Post by **tt 383** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:46 pm

Thank you, nice to see the old iron still keeping up with the aftermarket to an extent...... probably the Fuelie as well as the Dart would have benefited from more exhaust duration, but respectable none the less. AFR sure has done their homework and set the bar for street heads. Thanx for sharing

Cris · Post by **Cris** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:15 pm

Thanks for some really good info on a street SBC. Great post.

1989TransAm · Post by **1989TransAm** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:33 pm

If the fuelie heads had a more modern combustion chamber they would have faired even better.

tod85 · Post by **tod85** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:05 am

Cris wrote:Thanks for some really good info on a street SBC. Great post.

I do want to point out it wasn't me doing the testing, it was a west coast racer with a 62 corvette who was just tinkering on the dyno for a day. He was good enough to share the results with the corvette community..... I just brought it over here because I had seen a few threads earlier in the month talking about cylinder heads..... thought a few might find it interesting.

tod85 · Post by **tod85** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:07 am

1989TransAm wrote:If the fuelie heads had a more modern combustion chamber they would have faired even better.

Actually, in a previous test, the Dart 180's and the Fuelies trapped the same mph.... however, there were a few other changes as well, so its not really a lock you can say anymore than that. But, I will say, I think the CFM performance did a bang up job with them when you realize they are 46 year old cylinder heads.

tod85 · Post by **tod85** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:12 am

tt 383 wrote:Thank you, nice to see the old iron still keeping up with the aftermarket to an extent...... probably the Fuelie as well as the Dart would have benefited from more exhaust duration, but respectable none the less. AFR sure has done their homework and set the bar for street heads. Thanx for sharing

Yes, at least on street/strip applications, the AFR eliminator cylinder heads are really shining.... but honestly, they always did, even their old castings made pretty good power off the shelf.

I think they are also making good strides in the high rpm market as well with the 227 head, and the soon to be released AFR 235 cylinder head that will be a standard height 23 degree port (Same as the 227).... I've heard they are going to flow in the 330-340 area....... pretty stout for an off the shelf affordable 23 degree head. I'm guessing they will need minimal work to run well on 406+ motors.

wesmigletz · Post by **wesmigletz** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:22 am

Wolfplace wrote:Tod85
Looks suspiciously like Wes's deal

Hey Mike, that would be my test. Small internet, huh? Thanks for the Morel lifters, the con rods, and the advice!!!

With regards to the test, I tried to keep it as scientific as possible within the constraints of my application. One of the constraints was a low hood clearance, thus the Team G intake, the second being I wanted a somewhat mild cam. I'm sure a bigger cam would have delivered more top end HP, but I doubt my wife would have liked the idle when she is putting arond town, fouling plugs. Finally, I am currently running an 1800-2200 stall converter, and a 3.36 gear.

Driven as tested in the baseline test, with the flat tappet cam and Team G, the car went a best of 12.77 @ 107.XX (It's gone 108.XX, but not on that pass) at Famoso on 10/26/08. With the same engine and a Weiand #8120 intake, the car went 12.79 at Famoso on 10/19/08. The car is not optimized for sure. All shifts were at 5000 RPM (with the Stock shifter left in D), and the car is trapping around 5000 - 5100 RPM.

With that said, I was looking to go quicker and wanted to try another set of heads. I jumped in the middle of a nut-swinging love fest thread on another forum, and offered to put up or shut up with my car. I had no direct affiliation with any of the head manufactures at that point in time.

I've been happy with my 1962 Camel Hump heads that Mike Stark ported, and to be honest was kinda hoping to beat the aftermarket heads with them. They did better than most expected...

Any way, the results are posted above. During the course of the test, I was impressed by the difference the HR cam made, and the numbers put-out by the AFR heads.

Wes

Wolfplace · Post by **Wolfplace** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:54 am

Hi Wes,
Yep, I am only two places, here or TC

You are welcome, thanks for allowing us to help a bit it is appreciated & thanks to Tod85 for posting the results over here

Happy holidays from
Mike, Darlene & the Pack

1989TransAm · Post by **1989TransAm** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:20 pm

Thanks Wes for spending the time, money and effort to conduct the test. It was very interesting.