F1 on the Cheap?

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

FIA has a new proposal to reduce costs by 90%.

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Re ... 05-02.html

I don't see how the proposed rules would make much difference in cost. For example using less exotic materials to accomplish a given task will often cost more because of the additional engineering required to control strength/weight ratios.

Maybe they could do something like they have in the bomber stock car races with claiming rules on the cars/engines.

[bobqzzi]

FIA has a new proposal to reduce costs by 90%.

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Re ... 05-02.html

I don't see how the proposed rules would make much difference in cost. For example using less exotic materials to accomplish a given task will often cost more because of the additional engineering required to control strength/weight ratios.

Maybe they could do something like they have in the bomber stock car races with claiming rules on the cars/engines.

Trying to reduce costs in something like F1 is very silly. Teams will spend all the money they can get their hands on to win- whether is is berillyum copper pistons, or getting the best "spec" wheels by buying 1000 to get the 100 best ones, it will still be spent.

[OldSStroker]

A timely post especially after Sunday's FIAsco at Indy!

My first reaction is that the FIA lives in a fantasy world that puts Disney to shame. If I were Tony George and company and hadn't paid the FIA the balance of the millions due for today's race, I'd not pay them and offer refunds to the folks who bought tickets to today's race. I thought the fans showed restraint in only throwing a few bottles onto the track. Michael said he though he smelled beer in one of the turns. The hardest part of his job this year so far was the podium and the press interview today.

A 90% cost reduction? Cost reduction in racing, from Soap Box Derby on up has never worked. If there is a desire to win, either for personal satisfaction (Soap Box Derby) or ego (F1?), or sales (NASCAR), the eventual winners will outspend the others. Look at your local oval tracks for a good example.

The "have nots" won't be equal to the "haves" by legislation unless the "haves" decide to drop out. It's kind of like wars: the country/faction/team WILLING to spend the most money can win. WILLING is the important point. Spending the most doesn't guarantee a win, but not spending it virtually guarantees not winning. The only war I personally participated in proved the WILLING part is critical.

I like the idea of trying to limit growth in spending, but I don't think there is any way a 90% reduction will work, unless most of the top competitors drop out of the game. That might be a possibility.

To police very restrictive rules you have to have "police" who are nearly as smart and as well-funded as the players. I've not seen that happen in racing ever. Remember it's not what they might find that levels the playing field, it's the stuff they don't find or have no idea that it exists that un-levels it. As restrictive a NASCAR is, there is stuff happening that they, or the other competitors don't know of. Every time NASCAR finds something proves this. Magnesium intake manifold to save a kilo or so above the CG? You want one? The last I looked a major player had one for sale on their website.

All's fair in love, war and racing...until you get caught.

I'm in favor of restricting engine displacement, materials, fuel, vehicle weight, dimensions, tires (!), and perhaps even downforce if it can be policed, but IMO, that doesn't necessarily reduce costs. It just makes it harder (read that as more costly) to get the "Unfair Advantage".

Perhaps my rant has no place in this forum. Moderators may delete if if they wish, but my disgust with today's FIA decisions needed an outlet. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

[jake197000]

I read they spend over 100 million per car.

[panic]

the country/faction/team WILLING to spend the most money can win. WILLING is the important point

It's how Reagan broke the Soviet Union: increased our defense spending until Russians, trying to keep up, had no bread.
Of course, Reagan printed money to do this, and those bonds were retired by printing more money. His national debt: $1,000,000,000,000. Current debt: $30,000,000,000,000.
This kicks the can so far down the road that no one alive today will see that debt retired.

[/rant]

[tjs44]

I think NASCAR has made a good effort at the request of the team owners.They designed a new car,the team agreed in writing that there would be single source suppliers and a certain number of parts that were UNTOUCHABLE.Ended up to be 23.It has had some growing pains but IMO the Cup series racing has never been better.More winners than ever BUT teams still look for edges beyond working in the grey areas and get busted but with huge fines and loss of points.The Cup teams on the top level had like 30 CNC machines making virtually EVERY part of the old car.Trying to get the teams together and request NASCAR to save them from themselves was and is a challenge.I dont think there would be a snowballs chance to get that to happen in F1.Tom

[BLSTIC]

You'll never get F1 cheap. What you could do, though, is make it relevant.

"Block and head casting to be available in a road car with minimum production of 100 units" (or similar wording)

I have no trouble at all believing that there's a place for a high thermal efficiency 2-ish litre v6 in nearly everyone's vehicle lineup, especially with the turbo and hybrid setups.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

Another 2005 thread bumped to the top.

[BILL-C]

There are many incredibly intelligent, talented,inovative, and motivated people working in the auto racing world.They also love to spend time and money on R+D. It would be more beneficial to society if the rules were such that this very motivated bunch could be aimed in a direction that could result in some ideas that make our current automobile fleet better. It's a sin that so much money and effort is spent on polishing dinosaur turds in so many classes of racing. Let F1 guys spend the money and do the research on a goal that makes sense and advances current street car technology.

[juuhanaa]

Let the F1 guys polish theyr engines, but let a former F1 champ spread the word about folkracing.

https://youtu.be/2bmqdnx5R1U

Rules in the "engine compartment" in a nutshell

Car original engine, or 4 cylinder max 2250cc and pump gas. Rear engined cars are more restricted, but all NA.

[JC565Ford]

Let the F1 guys polish theyr engines, but let a former F1 champ spread the word about folkracing.

https://youtu.be/2bmqdnx5R1U

Rules in the "engine compartment" in a nutshell

Car original engine, or 4 cylinder max 2250cc and pump gas. Rear engined cars are more restricted, but all NA.

4ltr limit, V10 - V12, 9,000 rpm limit and make them shift.

[frnkeore]

I'm pretty old and have been following Indy Car and F1, since 1958, when I was 14 and raced Formula Atlantic, in the '70's.

I'm not a fan of hybrid's or even super charging for that matter but, I love innovation. In my world, formula cars would only have NA engine size, wheel base and weight rules AND no restrictions on the number of teams, as F1 has now. Let the cream, rise to the top!!!

Indy cars has changed from that, to a high HP Formula Ford class, very, very sad and F1 is becoming TO woke!

[David Redszus]

What I have slowly learned about racing is that only 15% is about the driver, and most drivers
are not worth listening to. Finnish or otherwise.

Racing is also much more about brain power, not horsepower.

Unless the sactioning body rules dumb it all down to a clown game thats not even a sport.

Build the fastest beast you possibly can, whatever way you can. On race day we can simply
classify cars by lap times.

Run watcha brung.

[hoffman900]

There are many incredibly intelligent, talented,inovative, and motivated people working in the auto racing world.They also love to spend time and money on R+D. It would be more beneficial to society if the rules were such that this very motivated bunch could be aimed in a direction that could result in some ideas that make our current automobile fleet better. It's a sin that so much money and effort is spent on polishing dinosaur turds in so many classes of racing. Let F1 guys spend the money and do the research on a goal that makes sense and advances current street car technology.

I’m in this camp.

I love a good naturally aspirated, screaming V8-V12 as much as anyone, but time to move on.

[juuhanaa]

Racing is about torq. First, second and straight to fifth gear. H pattern stick shifts faster from fifth to second gear, than a sequential.

I wonder what kind of torq monster a NA 9000rpm revving V engine be like