Maximum Useful Power in a street car

Dodge Freak · Post by **Dodge Freak** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:57 am

Uh, yep thats it.

MSP cameras

those are to help watch how the traffic is flowing, they don't give out tickets--unlike places like AZ where they went and arrested rapper DMX after his 69 Nova was pictured a few times going 100 mph weeks earlier.

Nope, Michigan is cool. No smog tests, safety inspections, red light cameras....heck we don't even have car pool lanes. We were to get one and then MDT found out theres no law to enforce car pool lanes

Sir Yun · Post by **Sir Yun** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:19 am

I have seen road legal weird cars like a Porsche 956 LM racer with plates(plain burgundy. looks weird without the sponsor stickers..750+bhp about 1800 lbs..will corner at 125 mph too..nice if you misjudge the offramp a tad)

oh and Red Victor (he is a board member here) i think has about 2200 BHP or something like that and you can drive it on a street.. then again in England there are a 90 mph sofa and bed that are road legal .

But i guess as a drive it normally (as in everyday for several hundred thousand miles) about 500-600 bhp (audi RS6 station wagon, big mercs).

top speed is totaly useless. (and i live 5 miles from ze german border). An RS6 without the limiter will do about 200 Mph (with the dog and the kids as well) there is a reason why the gemans decided on a 155 mph limiter. even when cruising at 110 Mph a 90 mph difference is a LOT.

Dodge Freak · Post by **Dodge Freak** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:40 pm

As far as I know theres very few cars in the USA that are 1,800 lbs...thats very light. Sure its a blast to drive, must stop very quick too. Only thing is holding the road at speed and if you hit a wet patch at 100 mph it might be bye bye time..

But with high gas prices, light weight cars are coming. Will a old V8 fit it there, likely not but who knows.

Might-make that will-be a whole new world of hot rodding 30-40 years from now.

Greezer · Post by **Greezer** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:27 pm

Uh, yep thats it.

MSP cameras those are to help watch how the traffic is flowing

Um, I knew that. You ever listen to a police scanner? One day, I accidentally passed a hidden MSP doing 155 - no further info...

Sir Yun · Post by **Sir Yun** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:57 pm

well. i was mostly pointing out that while it is ''road legal'' it is not really a road car it's an 80's group C endurance racer and somehow they managed to get it road legal in france.

it was on sale in switzerland ''advertised as cheaper than an Enzo but faster..only 750K $...oh if i win the lottery

it stops pretty well i guess (the disks are about a foot in diameter..they where hitting 407 km/h (a tad over 250 mph) at the end of the then 3.1 miles straight at le mans..which ends in a rather hard corner. they averaged well over a 100 (more like 125) in the wet but it's a full on ground effect car.

the Koenigsegg CCXR Edition E85 car has 300 more BHP (1060isch) is entirely made from carbon and is not really faster..

you don't need all that much power.. you need enough...then add half the car

850lbs (and american made) and 400 bhp and AWD

see:http://www.dpcars.net/dp1/index.htm

Dodge Freak · Post by **Dodge Freak** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:38 pm

Greezer wrote:
Uh, yep thats it.

MSP cameras those are to help watch how the traffic is flowing
Um, I knew that. You ever listen to a police scanner? ..

Oh, I am sure they call out a notice to be on the look out, if somebody flies on by a camera but they need to spot you...its not like in AZ were they can go arrest you weeks later thanks to a picture---thats BS...

Danglerb · Post by **Danglerb** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:19 am

With a 3200 lb car somewhere between 400 and 800 rwhp things get pointless. What I like in a street car is just enough rwhp to break the tires loose with the throttle in the power band in 1st and 2nd gear. Thats about 300 rwhp for my Porsche 928 running a factory sized 245 reasonably sticky rear tire. 450 rwhp and I can smoke the tires with the throttle through 3rd. 550 rwhp and some tape over the seams and headlights and it breaks 200 mph.

Figure out what you want to do, and its easy to figure out how much HP it needs.

OTOH I don't see a lot of seat of the pants difference between stepping down a tire size and stepping up a motor size, both spin the wheels.

mrtbolt64 · Post by **mrtbolt64** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:15 am

I have a mustang that weighs 3220 with me in it and runs 9.85 at 140. Its totally a street car, 393 cubic inch with a supercharger pushing 11lbs of boost. Small hyd roller, idles great and runs pump gas BUT

Its totally usless as a steet car, sure.........you can idle around and be reasonable on the throttle but if you want to get into at all it just spins the tires in all 3 gears. For a street car, I think something in the 400 to 500 range would be alot more appropiate.

Greezer · Post by **Greezer** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:21 pm

Have a nice day

jdavis · Post by **jdavis** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:14 pm

Eh, for driving in traffic I think anything over 450hp is pushing it. My daily driver runs 11.1 @ 122mph on e85 and weighs 3650lb with me in it. In this car honestly I am always driving up somebodies back end. I have to lay off the gas completely and not run over 2500rpm or I will be smashing into them. The car is not happy running like that. Passing people is also a bit of a hazard even on 315/35/17 drag radials it gets pretty loose on the downshift. If I do happen to get into it on the street i'm doing well over the speed limit in no time even at half throttle and spinning bad anytime I cross about 4500rpm.

I can build engines at that power level and beyond for not a ton of cash with some excellent heads and a very mild cam duration wise. Idle near stock around 800rpm. I put alot of effort into drivability over maximum power if its 100% street. I can pretty safely say if I would put another 20* of duration in the cam I would pick up 50-65hp alot of the time and the parts would take it fine. I don't care if an engine lopes or not, it'll do all its talking when the gas is on the floor. I dont build a street engine to sound cool at the drive in, I build it to enjoy driving it. That lopey idle is cool for about 20 minutes in a traffic jam then your head just thumps along in time with it and it gets old. Thats just my opinion of what a street engine should be, drivability first, power second. The ls7 is a perfect example of what I consider an ideal street engine.

Alot of people get very confused and greedy while building a street engine. Pretty soon you're blending 100octane rocket fuel with pump gas because you needed the extra 10hp from the two points you added to compression and the thing spits and surges and aint happy unless its over 3000rpm. Acts like a real bear trying to cold start it and feels like garbage to drive because you had to run a 8" stall to go with the cam but you have high gears to keep revs down on the street

.

Usually when somebody came to me for help or to build an engine for them my speech was basicly this. Build a street engine or a race engine, not one thats half-*** at both.

Kinda off topic but I think its all somewhat relevant.

hotrod · Post by **hotrod** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:06 pm

There is a reason that for many years the dividing line for high power high performance cars was at 10 lbs per hp. That is a good low end for the too much power to use equation. Fast enough to be fun slow enough most idiots won't kill themselves or some one else with the extra performance.

Around 8 - 6 pounds per hp things start to get interesting fast. Under 6 pounds per hp you have a car you can hardly use in many cases, as it is difficult to drive at anywhere near its performance capability.

Larry

Greezer · Post by **Greezer** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:02 pm

Have a nice day

talon · Post by **talon** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:09 pm

Jon

you mentioned

"I was thinking for a while that a super car really needs to have a V12 to be exotic"

isn't exotic something like beauty? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Acutally think about the sound also - I remember the v12's Jaguars that Bob Tulius used to run with Chip Robinson in the late 70's/early 80's. I remember seeing that car come thru the ss's and the sound of that car going around turn 6 at Riverside. That was beauty and exotic all raped up in one. At least to me. Oh yeah it hauled ass too

Jim

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:19 am

My Corvette is not what I would call a super car but it can beat some of them That people call super cars.
What is streetable depends on what kind of car and engine combo.
A 700 HP naturally aspirated engine would be too radical for the street but forced induction or nitrous can be drove in city traffic with no problem.
My car has 4 lbs per horsepower and I have been driving it on the street for the last 8 years with no problems but from what I have seem of many drivers I would say they would live about 10 seconds behind the wheel of this car.
What is streetable depends on many things including the driver.
Here is the mods to my car.

89Black coupe 6spd FX-3 \ Chrome GS Wheels 315\35\17 G-ForceKD's \ SB-406cid\ Procharger D1-R \ 8 Rib pulleys\ Custom built Spearco intercooler \ Spal Fans \ NOS wet nitrous system controlled by jacobs mastermind controller \ Spearco water/alcohol injection system \ TPIS Mini Ram II \ 58mmTB \ AFR heads \ AFR rev kit \ Manley4340 push rods \
Comp cams custom grind roller \ Comp cam lifters \ Comp cams roller rockers 1.6 ratio \ Ross custom pistons 4340 pins \Speed pro rings \ 6 inch eagle 4340 3d rods \ eagle 4340 crank \ fluid balancer \ Cloyes true roller timing chain \ Melling high output oil pump \ 10 qt. multi trap door pan \ large oil cooler \ MSD-Digital-7 ignition\With MSD pro-power coil \ MSD boost retard \ Msd super conductor wires \ Accel DFI Gen.7 W/wide band \ 83lbs injectors \ Centerforce clutch & flywheel \ TPIS jet hot coated headers
\ 3" dual exhaust with electric cut outs \ 13 inch rotors C5 calipers w hawk pads \ Air dam with air ducts to brakes \ Triple pillar pod with Autometer gauges \ Air-Fuel \Boost \Fuel Pressure \ lowering kit \Escort radar detector \RM radar jammer.

stealth · Post by **stealth** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:11 am

I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the question. Are you saying that one MUST use all the hp available on the street? Seems to me one could have 1500 hp engine in any vehicle, and only the driver would control the speed and driving characteristics of the car. He wouldn't have to use 100% of the power available. Now at the track, road/drag or whatever he can swap tires make some mods (or not) and have at it. Kind of like freedom of speech, you don’t' have to call someone an A-hole just because you can.

So basically if you want to drive a racecar on the street you have to use your head a bit. Race it at the track and Drive it on the street.

mike