Valve Spring Squareness

Mike Rogers · Post by **Mike Rogers** » Thu May 26, 2005 6:37 pm

I,am getting ready to install a set of manley nex tech springs and as i had them on my bench i noticed 1 spring setting on a angel.I put it on my square and come to find out it leans about 1/8 to a little more.It dose not stand straight so i checked all of them and they are all out of square.How importain is this and do you guys check them when they are new.
Manley part #221432.This is the outer spring only that i checked at this time.

racing97 · Post by **racing97** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:45 am

Squarness is a crtiria in the orignal spring design and usually is specified in degrees, I believe no more than 3 degrees max. If it is excessive it will simply not distribute the load evenly on the Valve as it translates motion, possibly causing premature Valve guide and seat wear.
Check with your supplier and or the Manufacturer for the tolerance it sounds a bit excessive.

Randy

bill jones · Post by **bill jones** » Sun May 29, 2005 12:17 pm

-I looked at a set of Manley Nextexs yesterday and they are also tilted about .080" to .100".
-Looking at them a little closer they are 5 coils (tail end to tail end) and they all tilt the exact same direction in relation to the tail end of the wires.
-The thin edge of the tail end apparently allows the top of the spring to lean towards that end.
-I don't know what that means but the set I looked at doesn't bother me much.
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-I have seen some springs that are occasionally really bad like maybe an odd spring or two in a set and if I saw that I'd b-tch about it to the supplier.
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-At an AETC conference some years ago Dema Elgin-Elgin cams mentioned to use a ball bearing in the retainer when you test/compress the springs and look at the angle of the retainer or the top of the spring in relation to the bottom when compressed, to see how bad it looks.
-Then he mentioned something about springs needing to be of either equal or maybe it was an odd number of coils (I forget) so that they sit up straight.
-Then he also mentioned but never explained how the number of coils were to be counted in relation to the flat part of the tails.

Mike Rogers · Post by **Mike Rogers** » Sun May 29, 2005 4:40 pm

I called manley and they are sending me another set out of a diffrent batch.The set i have was the only batch they had so we will see on tue. if these are any better.

bill jones · Post by **bill jones** » Sun May 29, 2005 6:54 pm

-did you have to buy the replacements or send the others back before they'd send you the replacements?
-How did that deal go down?

Mike Rogers · Post by **Mike Rogers** » Mon May 30, 2005 8:11 am

They are shipping them free and if they are ok they told me to call them and they would send an RA out to send them back.

Manley is about an 1 hour and a half to my house.

bill jones · Post by **bill jones** » Mon May 30, 2005 12:18 pm

-That's neat they would do that for you like that.
-You must know somebody there?
-I've occasionally had deals like that but I find it very rare to get treated anywhere near that good.
-Did you happen to ask them to look at some of there own springs and see how bad they were tilted?

Mike Rogers · Post by **Mike Rogers** » Mon May 30, 2005 1:10 pm

Bill,

I did and they phoned me back and said that they do have some tilt but not as bad as the set that i have.

I have a set of PSI springs that came from one of the ford cup shops that only had dyno time on them and i checked them they even had some tilt but at the most .040.

I would like to check a set of ISKY tool room steel ones to see how they are.

I have to tell you this year has been a real hand full with parts and just things not working between this 2BBL engine and the hooters pro cup engine.

I would like Darin to chime in on this if he can to see if they even check it or worry about it or what there tolarence is.

I know some pople that work at DEI but it is hard to get answers from them because they think they are giving there secret away.

ICTCrob · Post by **ICTCrob** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:49 am

With all the new Beehive and odd spring shapes now, makes me wonder if that is part of the reason people like the nextek springs so much. With the high rpm bouncing up and down on the spring cup, landing with one edge first is probably better than flat.

-Rob

John Haskell · Post by **John Haskell** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:26 am

Through the years I have taken notice of this spring angle & not seen issues w/this untill you get into the cheap spring wire. These ended up with what I call a ' hoop or bow ' in the coils. Simular to the ' bow ' that comes from pressure plate springs. So if you've seen this, the valve spring has the same look to it. ------ Not good !

With a good wire proccess, it just doesn't seem to show this in what I've dealt with however, it does happen. -------- I recently went through this w/a 'very little use, LSM 1.5/8" Comp. spring set & it was enough to make a phone call to let them know what the deal was. Because, when you don't see this normally, you chase it down.

I was a bit surprised that to the fella there talked it down saying, "once they have taken a set, they're good to go." -------- I don't buy it ! -------- The few springs in the set had somewhere in the 3/16" 'bow'.

Common sense tells the issue of side load, pressure loss & control & it aint right. But when you think of the amount of springs made & the quality there is today more than ever, it's a pretty impressive part.

In the end, we are still responsible in using a part or not & informing the customer of the reason.

Mike Rogers · Post by **Mike Rogers** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:59 pm

Well i got the new set from manley and half the set is .080 or more out of square and half is .080 and less.

I order a set of ISKY 8005 plus and will take a look at them.

I also have a call in to a freind that works at one of the cup shops to find out what they say.

I have calls into ISKY and ENDORO tech to see what they say.

I may be just blowing this out of proportion but i won,t sleep at night untill i do find out what is going on.

Oh by the way a checked a set of cheepe springs from PBM and guest what they are way better then Manley go fiqure.

idunno · Post by **idunno** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:52 am

Those are actually wound by pioneer anyway.PBM just dosent charge as much for them. Notice the shiney 1.550 spring that now everybody sells? Manley,Crane well PBM and Nickels also sells them and it's also a pioneer spring.If the Spring is tilting then I am sure the spring also rubs the inner more than it needs to and will generate more heat. I have used the 1.550 and the Larger shiney 1.640 diameter springs and they were fine so far,but they were not tilted much at all from PBM. I have yet to be dis-satisfied with any of the Isky 9985 and 9965 I have used also.