Lets say your building a 4 cylinder drag motor. You can run any cylinder head that has a OEM casting number. What do you think is the best head choice? Ford? rolled 15 degree, SB2.2, mopar? What would you build? Also, anyone had any experience with a Kansas Racing Products block? Thanks Guys.
Chad
Which head would you use.
Moderator: Team
Chad,
If you're building an F/ED you should call me, .. I've spent
a great deal of time on the combos.
Also I have some more Mercdog flowbench questions, ..
F/ED, simple, ... Mopar 4 cyl drag block IF you can find one, ..
and the W9 RP head, .. it's a class killer combo!!!
If it's a GM based engine, .. Kansas block and a 15º head seem to work
for an auto car, splayed valve head seems to be the choice for
5 speed clutch cars, .. ..
There has been the first 7 second run by an F/D, .. Mitsubitchi engine
I think, .. 12,000 rpm 4 cylinders seem to be taking over.
Curtis
If you're building an F/ED you should call me, .. I've spent
a great deal of time on the combos.
Also I have some more Mercdog flowbench questions, ..
F/ED, simple, ... Mopar 4 cyl drag block IF you can find one, ..
and the W9 RP head, .. it's a class killer combo!!!
If it's a GM based engine, .. Kansas block and a 15º head seem to work
for an auto car, splayed valve head seems to be the choice for
5 speed clutch cars, .. ..
There has been the first 7 second run by an F/D, .. Mitsubitchi engine
I think, .. 12,000 rpm 4 cylinders seem to be taking over.
Curtis
Race Flow Development
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
Re: Which head would you use.
I'm curious about this inquiry- I am unfamiliar with drag racing rules, but I'm wondering what contraints there are on your choice? Displacement? # valves? Is there a sliding weight/dosplacement scale? Carb only?cspeier wrote:Lets say your building a 4 cylinder drag motor. You can run any cylinder head that has a OEM casting number. What do you think is the best head choice? Ford? rolled 15 degree, SB2.2, mopar? What would you build? Also, anyone had any experience with a Kansas Racing Products block? Thanks Guys.
Chad
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user-9274568
The rules are 6.25 or more lbs. per cubic inch with 1100 lb minimum.
2- valve only, cast head, OEM commercially available over the counter from source.
Block is OEM or NHRA-accepted aftermarket
Carbs can be OEM standard per Blueprint Bulletins. Weber or equivalent restricted to 55 mm
Just your basic pain in the butt rules.. NHRA gets REALLY complicated. I can almost promise that NHRA has a hard time following them.
Chad
2- valve only, cast head, OEM commercially available over the counter from source.
Block is OEM or NHRA-accepted aftermarket
Carbs can be OEM standard per Blueprint Bulletins. Weber or equivalent restricted to 55 mm
Just your basic pain in the butt rules.. NHRA gets REALLY complicated. I can almost promise that NHRA has a hard time following them.
Chad
I don' t have any experience but am building a similar engine and have done some research. As I noted in another post a guy I have talked to (Sherman Sligh- Curtis you may know him- lives a bit south of you near Charlottesville) runs this engine in, I think, the class you are talking about. His car or one he is involved with he told me makes about 430 on the dyno at 9600, goes through the lights at 10200, 8.04/160mph. The KRP block is based on the Super Duty Pontiac 4cyl with modifications to make it a lot stronger and is licensed by GM with a part number. It is also legal with Ford and MOpar parts and can be drilled for Pontiac, SBC, Ford and MOPAR heads. I don't know if the W9 fits but assume so. Because of the wide variety of configurations they can't really keep blocks in stock so, in essence, each is custom machined and there can be delay. I ordered mine first of September. I think will be shipped next week. (8 months). Sherman currently runs a 3 liter with a splayed valve head (as Curtis said) He has also used the 15* chevy rolled to 12* but says goes faster with the splayed valve. Because of the carb size restrictions (55mm I think someone said) he has a custom manifold ( he is a real innovator) with I think, 4 webers on it.
As my engine is a 2 liter the splayed valve head is too big. I have talked with Darin MOrgan about it and he felt a properly prepared SB2.2 would well outperform the 15* and the splayed valve would not work. But my bore size is smaller than you likely would use as most of the drag guys are in the 4.125 range with a 3.5 stroke approx.( my bore is 3.875) to give the 165-180" displacement range. Perhaps the Mopar head would be better and I have heard that these engines (MOpar base)have done well in midget racing recently.
Curtis, I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts and experience.
Jack
As my engine is a 2 liter the splayed valve head is too big. I have talked with Darin MOrgan about it and he felt a properly prepared SB2.2 would well outperform the 15* and the splayed valve would not work. But my bore size is smaller than you likely would use as most of the drag guys are in the 4.125 range with a 3.5 stroke approx.( my bore is 3.875) to give the 165-180" displacement range. Perhaps the Mopar head would be better and I have heard that these engines (MOpar base)have done well in midget racing recently.
Curtis, I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts and experience.
Jack
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user-9274568
I need to talk to this guy. THANKS
Do you know if he runs a automatic or 5 speed?
The cool thing about KRP, I'm about 2.5 hours from them. I need to be around 176 cubic inches. The only downside to the KRP block is the 4.125 bore. I visited with them and they said guys have gone to 4.155, but that's my choice. I really like the Mopar block, but from what I'm understanding is the W9 block is only good for a 4.00 bore. The P5 block is good to 4.155. I'm not sure a Hemi head will work with my automatic.
That's what scares me about a SB2.2 or splayed. I'm not convinced it's good with the automatic. I personally rather ask than make a mistake.
Now if I had some hard data, my choice may be different.
Do you know if he runs a automatic or 5 speed?
The cool thing about KRP, I'm about 2.5 hours from them. I need to be around 176 cubic inches. The only downside to the KRP block is the 4.125 bore. I visited with them and they said guys have gone to 4.155, but that's my choice. I really like the Mopar block, but from what I'm understanding is the W9 block is only good for a 4.00 bore. The P5 block is good to 4.155. I'm not sure a Hemi head will work with my automatic.
That's what scares me about a SB2.2 or splayed. I'm not convinced it's good with the automatic. I personally rather ask than make a mistake.
Now if I had some hard data, my choice may be different.
Pushrod only? Did it have to come with carbs?cspeier wrote:The rules are 6.25 or more lbs. per cubic inch with 1100 lb minimum.
2- valve only, cast head, OEM commercially available over the counter from source.
Block is OEM or NHRA-accepted aftermarket
Carbs can be OEM standard per Blueprint Bulletins. Weber or equivalent restricted to 55 mm
Just your basic pain in the butt rules.. NHRA gets REALLY complicated. I can almost promise that NHRA has a hard time following them.
Chad
Jack,
I think I've met Sherman, .. if it's the guy I'm thinking of he is involved with
Al Akerman and his F/D. It's a five speed car, injected with a splayed valve.
Runs in the 8.0's on a good day.
Al was the record holder until a Mitsubitchi? ran the first 7 second F/D pass.
I don't think the splayed valve head would work on an auto car, .. and I think
it's a bit much for a five speed too. 12º seems to work well for an auto car.
I've never built an SB2.2 for this application but I do really like the head, and think
it would work well.
If I had the cash to do this, .. and I would LOVE to do this, .. my first
choice would be the Mopar block and the W9 raised port head, ..
second choice would be the Kansas block and an SB2.2, ..
Both with Webber carbs, .. for the econo class, ..
If it was an F/D with a five speed, .. hummm, .. the gloves come off, ..
bank account gets drained, ..
Jack, .. I still need to come up to see you, .. as I still can't see.
With I had time, ..
Curtis
I think I've met Sherman, .. if it's the guy I'm thinking of he is involved with
Al Akerman and his F/D. It's a five speed car, injected with a splayed valve.
Runs in the 8.0's on a good day.
Al was the record holder until a Mitsubitchi? ran the first 7 second F/D pass.
I don't think the splayed valve head would work on an auto car, .. and I think
it's a bit much for a five speed too. 12º seems to work well for an auto car.
I've never built an SB2.2 for this application but I do really like the head, and think
it would work well.
If I had the cash to do this, .. and I would LOVE to do this, .. my first
choice would be the Mopar block and the W9 raised port head, ..
second choice would be the Kansas block and an SB2.2, ..
Both with Webber carbs, .. for the econo class, ..
If it was an F/D with a five speed, .. hummm, .. the gloves come off, ..
bank account gets drained, ..
Jack, .. I still need to come up to see you, .. as I still can't see.
With I had time, ..
Curtis
Race Flow Development
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
Curtis- I am pretty sure you are correct about the car and Sherman. After I get my block and head will let you know. Maybe come up on a Sunday. I can check the peepers and show you what I am up to. Pick your brain. Even trade. You can check out Annapolis or we can go eat some Crabs or something.
Cspeier- pm me and I will give you his address. He will talk to anyone at length and is a great guy, very innnovative. You can drop him a note or see if then you can give him a call to chat.
The bore spacing for the Mopar restricts bore size in the KRP Block so that is an issue for you.
Jack
Cspeier- pm me and I will give you his address. He will talk to anyone at length and is a great guy, very innnovative. You can drop him a note or see if then you can give him a call to chat.
The bore spacing for the Mopar restricts bore size in the KRP Block so that is an issue for you.
Jack
Yo.......cspeier wrote:I I really like the Mopar block, but from what I'm understanding is the W9 block is only good for a 4.00 bore. The P5 block is good to 4.155. I'm not sure a Hemi head will work with my automatic.
.
The P5007636 With bellhousing, comes through with rough bore at 4.00" That does not mean that is maximum, that is just where they start. It shares same bore space with SB Mopar (obviously since uses W9 head) and I am familiar with the 410" Aluminum MP blocks and their sleeve capability. They will go to 4.155" safely. Once past that, and you are taking chances. Remember the WoO guys run these at 4.125 or 4.135 All time, at 810-830 HP and 3.80" stroke side loading the sleeves. The big Aluminum block Nitrous drag motors are usually 4.145" or 4.155". I have personally seen them handle ~1250 HP in King of the Street Competition. The little MP 4 cylinders use same sleeves as their big brothers. There is a 9" deck V8 block for drag racing, that is the one that would share the sleeve with the 9" 4 cyl block. They use 9.10's in WoO. I have brand new 9.0" deck Alum V8 block sitting in shop right now for sale.
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user-9274568
You need a used Wedge block with a bellhousing.... good luck. Most of stuff out there is Midget stuff. I'd still probably give, Stanton, Kistler, RAM Racing Engines, and Indy Cyl head a call to see of any of them have one laying around or might know where to find one. Also might try Patterson. I ASSume there are none in the MP pipeline? I actually might know a guy in Columbus that MIGHT have one. I think he had one, I don't know if he sold it or not. I'll see if I can dig up his email addy for you. It was a new block, and I think he wanted $1500 for it.