ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Warp Speed
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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by Warp Speed » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:04 am

John Wallace wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:53 am
Was it just required to start and run, not make a certain HP on dyno?
(lot of difference)

:?:
Run continuously for 1 minute, then tear down inspection for loose fasteners and critical fasteners torque checked.
I have done a winning cup engine in 9 hrs, but it wasn't fun! Lol

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by GARY C » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:06 pm

joe 90 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:56 am
hoffman900 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:54 am


You need to find a new camshaft grinder then. Porsche pancake racers have this problem too as the cams spin in different directions. A few grinders understand this and grind accordingly.

You do know what Jay does for a living and who he works for, right?


I don't think you understood what I wrote?
GARY C wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:26 pm


Does either method really matter considering best performance is usually found by dialing it in on the dyno and is usually not what the cam card calls for?
It's no different from checking bearing clearances.
You don't really need to because most of the time they're OK.
BUT
It finds unexpected errors and at the same time teaches you a lot.
That's before you run it.
Some cams are made better than others..............how would you know if it's too hard to measure?
I agree it needs to be checked I just don't how you decide the best ICL unless your on the dyno.

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:53 pm

This is why I build my own stuff.

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by BobbyB » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:44 pm

Warp Speed,

Can you post a picture of what you used to measure cam location to within .1 degree three time in a row? Thanks.

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by gmrocket » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:15 pm

BobbyB wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:44 pm
Warp Speed,

Can you post a picture of what you used to measure cam location to within .1 degree three time in a row? Thanks.

I have some points on my wheel split .2 or 1/5th of a degree. Not that hard

Maybe he's using a digital piece?

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by Warp Speed » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:58 pm

BobbyB wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:44 pm
Warp Speed,

Can you post a picture of what you used to measure cam location to within .1 degree three time in a row? Thanks.
What, of a degree wheel and an indicator?!? Lol
Just kidding.
It is a 10in ring that holds a rear encoder on the dyno flywheel, and is graduated in .5 degree increments, along with a 3.5in Starret indicator in the pushrod.
Setting ICL

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by gmrocket » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:18 pm

Warp Speed wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:58 pm
BobbyB wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:44 pm
Warp Speed,

Can you post a picture of what you used to measure cam location to within .1 degree three time in a row? Thanks.
What, of a degree wheel and an indicator?!? Lol
Just kidding.
It is a 10in ring that holds a rear encoder on the dyno flywheel, and is graduated in .5 degree increments, along with a 3.5in Starret indicator in the pushrod.
Setting ICL
10" 117 tooth ring........😆😉

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by gmrocket » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:55 pm

+/- 3 deg, close enuff

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by joe 90 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:27 pm

gmrocket wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:18 pm


10" 117 tooth ring........😆😉
117 tooth ring gear = 300 mm = 11.8 inches
Warp Speed wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:08 am

You obviously live in a different world! Lol
Luckily we do.

I play with multiple cams, multiple valves, multiple turbos, have no rules, have a budget of zero and do it for fun.
Left handed too....lol
Last edited by joe 90 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by MadBill » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:37 pm

Wait! Are you saying there are engines that don't have either 153 or 168 teeth? :shock:
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by gmrocket » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:23 pm

MadBill wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:37 pm
Wait! Are you saying there are engines that don't have either 153 or 168 teeth? :shock:
Now that's some crazy stuff...my favorite number ever, since I was a kid was 168!! Go fugur huh 😜,, +/- 3, it was fluid

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by gmrocket » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:26 pm

joe 90 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:27 pm
gmrocket wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:18 pm


10" 117 tooth ring........😆😉
117 tooth ring gear = 300 mm = 11.8 inches
Warp Speed wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:08 am

You obviously live in a different world! Lol
Luckily we do.

I play with multiple cams, multiple valves, multiple turbos, have no rules, have a budget of zero and do it for fun.
Left handed too....lol
And multiple mistakes, but who's counting.

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by Warp Speed » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:19 am

gmrocket wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:26 pm
joe 90 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:27 pm
gmrocket wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:18 pm


10" 117 tooth ring........😆😉
117 tooth ring gear = 300 mm = 11.8 inches
Warp Speed wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:08 am

You obviously live in a different world! Lol
Luckily we do.

I play with multiple cams, multiple valves, multiple turbos, have no rules, have a budget of zero and do it for fun.
Left handed too....lol
And multiple mistakes, but who's counting.
LOL

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by BobbyB » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:17 am

Thanks Warp Speed. I figured it must be an awesome set up.

When using a piston stop, what can be done to account for the backlash when reversing direction of the crankshaft? If you don't allow for it, doesn't there have to be some significant error if you are using a timing chain?

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Re: ICL vs. .050” Cam Degreeing Methods

Post by Warp Speed » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:32 am

BobbyB wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:17 am
Thanks Warp Speed. I figured it must be an awesome set up.

When using a piston stop, what can be done to account for the backlash when reversing direction of the crankshaft? If you don't allow for it, doesn't there have to be some significant error if you are using a timing chain?
When using the piston stop, you are setting tdc, not measuring event placement, so reversing doesn't matter. Once tdc is set and the stop is removed, you will ALWAYS go in the direction of rotation.

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